Autor Thema: Skyship rules  (Gelesen 4617 mal)

KjetilKverndokken

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Skyship rules
« am: 01. August 2013, 17:21:08 »
As I understand it, there are no rules for skyships and combat with those in this incarnation of the rules - but it took up a healthy portion of the classical core book.

Are those rule planned along the line - and if so, how soon?

Those rules wold also be a very nice addition to the kickstarter as a strecthgoal.
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Orok

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Re: Skyship rules
« Antwort #1 am: 01. August 2013, 18:02:50 »
The Shiprules are not a part so long, because the focus is now more on the characters, not the ships or armies. I understand this design-decission, but it is a point that comes up a lot. So far i know, it schould be in a
later expansion. The "technology-book. But s.o. here made some fan-rules. Never have a change to test them, but maybe he translate them?

Those rules wold also be a very nice addition to the kickstarter as a strecthgoal.
A really good idea. You should add this in a kickstarter comment, or i do it for you :)
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Tsu

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Re: Skyship rules
« Antwort #2 am: 01. August 2013, 18:18:50 »
Well there are allways the vehicle combat Rules from HEX, which can be swapped into Space without effort since its Ubiquity.

KjetilKverndokken

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Re: Skyship rules
« Antwort #3 am: 02. August 2013, 11:26:26 »
I'll take a look in the HEX rules - also posted the suggestion in the KS comments section yesterday :)
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Tupper

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Re: Skyship rules
« Antwort #4 am: 09. April 2016, 06:56:02 »
I made this post on Black Campbell's website (https://blackcampbell.com/2016/04/02/guest-post-converting-space1889-ships-for-ubiquity/), but thought it might be of interest here, if you'll forgive the thread-necromancy.  If you follow the link to Black Campbell's site, there's a pdf file available with all of this laid out tidily, and some suggestions of how to handle airship combat using ubiquity (cribbed together using "Secrets of the Surface World" and "Revelations of Mars").

In the following, I'm going to reason through how to convert old ("Sky Galleons of Mars") Space 1889 ships into the Clockwork Ubiquity system.  In doing this, I'm going to make use of "Secrets of the Surface World", which presents more vehicle rules for Hollow Earth Expedition.

Before I start calculations, one difference between "Sky Galleons of Mars" and the Clockwork Ubiquity system is the treatment of gun crews.  In the Clockwork equipment section, a Nordenfelt machinegun, for example, has a crew of 5, as was the case historically, whereas in "Sky Galleons of Mars" one gunner is sufficient for this gun.  With this in mind, for Ubiquity gaming, I suggest a revision of some of the gun crews, and, for smaller guns, a revision of their weight (larger guns have sufficient extra weight to account for large crews).  To obtain gun crew sizes, I examined four sets of documents.  "Ordnance Instructions for the United States Navy" (1866) gives crew numbers for smoothbore guns, while "Manual for Victorian Naval Forces" (1887 and 1890), "Gunnery Drill Book for Her Majesty's Fleet" (1885, 1889, and 1899), and "Gun and torpedo drills for the United States Navy" (1900) give crew numbers for breach-loading and rifled muzzle-loading cannons.  I summarise some common guns below
GunCrewWeightCost
5 barrel NF.515200
1 pdr HRC.310220
3 pdr HRC.413240
6 pdr HRC.414280
3-4" RBL.6see SGoMsee SGoM
5-6" RBL.7see SGoMsee SGoM
8" RBL.103003000
Sweeper16200
Light520400
Heavy7401000
Rod730800
Rogue21602000
Lob252002000
Note that the changes in weight for machine guns above may make some original designs (such as the Aphid) invalid.  To get around this, a ship can reduce its number of gunners, saving 2.5 tons and £20 for each gunner removed.  This was common practice on many ships, where sufficient gunners were carried to handle only one broadside's guns.  In the event of being engaged on both sides, guns would have to be operated short-handed.

In thinking about vehicle stats, the first consideration is how to handle size.  To do this, I'm going to base my calculations on some observations from Clockwork's Space 1889 and "Secrets of the Surface World".  A tramp steamer (size 8) with no armour, and presumably a steel hull, has defence of 8, and structure 24.  In contrast, a size 4 yacht, presumably wooden, has a defence of 4, and structure 14.  Assuming structure is the sum of passive defence and some structure level, this gives a "base structure" for size 4 vehicles of 10, and size 8 vehicles of 16.  Moving further up the scale, a MacKenzie's leviathan, which weighs around 1400 tons (scaling its size from a 12' pleisiosaur weighing 992 lbs gives a fair amount of heft to a 170' monster), has a size of 16, and a "base structure" of 23.  At the highest end of the scale, the 29,000 ton USS Arizona has a "base structure" of 28, and the 37,000 ton IJN Kirishima has a base structure of 30.

Using these numbers as a starting point, we can construct a table for weights, base structures and sizes:
WeightSizeBase Struct.WeightSizeBase Struct.
20+4101000+1422
25+5121200+1523
30+6141400+1623
40+7165000+1624
50+81810000+1625
100+91915000+1626
200+102020000+1627
400+112125000+1628
600+122130000+1629
800+132235000+1630
I'd calculate a zeppelin's stucture as above, but treat it as having a size of 16 otherwise, on account of its huge balloon.

The next piece of the puzzle is passive defence.  Here we know that the steamer (steel) has passive defence 8, the yacht (wood) has passive defence 4, and (from "Secrets of the Surface World") the Graf Zeppelin has passive defence 2.  The Arizona has a passive defence of 20, which, given that Space 1889's pre-Dreadnought battleships (see "Ironclads and Ether Flyers") have armour at most 7, makes 1 point of "Sky Galleons of Mars" AV being equivalent to 1 point of Ubiquity passive defence seem reasonable. 

Speed is measured in 200 yard hexes per half minute in "Sky Galleons of Mars".  Converting that to miles per hour gives one point of speed being 3.4mph.

Lastly, to calculate handling, "Sky Galleons of Mars" ships have a maximum altitude between Low and Very High, so Medium or Low gives -2 handling, High gives -1, and Very High gives 0. 

In terms of weaponry, "Secrets of the Surface World" gives gun sizes ranging from Light (8L) to Massive (24L).  I'm going to assume a 3" gun is light, and a 16" gun is Massive.  Spreading the increments of damage as best I can gives some typical Space 1889 guns as:
GunDamageROFRangeGunDamageROFRange
1pdr HRC6LA1300'8" RBL14L1/84500'
3pdr HRC6LA1500'Light Gun6L1/41000'
6pdr HRC6LA2000'Heavy Gun8L1/41500'
3" RBL8L1/42500'Rod Gun8L1/82500'
4"S RBL9L1/42500'Rogue9L1/82500'
4"L RBL9L1/43000'Lob Gun10L1/81300'
5" RBL11L1/44000'Drogue13L----
6" RBL12L1/44000'Liquid Fire 3L/hit----
Rates of fire are based on the observation that a Sweeper has rate of fire 1/4, so a gun that fires each round in "Sky Galleons of Mars" can fire every fourth round in Ubiquity.  For ranges, I've extrapolated from the performance of the 1 pdr HRC given in the Clockwork Space 1889 rulebook.  With the rod gun, I've given it the same damage as the heavy gun since it has higher penetration but lower damage in "Sky Galleons of Mars".  With Liquid Fire, one could assume that the dropper makes a touch attack on the target (ignoring passive defence) and then each hit starts a 3L fire, causing caustic damage to the attacked ship (which can ignore half its size in dice each round).

To see how this works in action, let's draw up some ships.  I'll do two, the Aphid, and the Hullcutter.

Aphid Gunboat SIZE: 9 (160 tons)  DEF: 10   STR: 27   SPD: 20   HAN: 0   CREW: 14 gunners, 4 bridge crew, 2 engineers, 2 deck hands, 1 officer, and 2 petty officers (25 total)  PASS: n/a   PRICE: £23,380; WEAPONRY: 4" short cannon (forward sponsoon; 6 crew) — Dmg: 9L   Rng: 2500'   Rate: 1/4   Spd: S Defence: 8; 2 x 1 lb. Hotchkiss Rotary Cannons (wing sponsoons; 3 crew ea.) — Dmg: 6L   Rng: 1300'   Rate: A   Spd: S Defence: 8; 2 x Nordenfeldt machineguns (broadsides; 5 crew ea.) — Dmg: 5L   Rng: 1000'   Cap: 40 (m) Rate: A   Spd: S Defence: 8.  ENDURANCE: 20 days.

Note that the guns are unarmoured, so have a lower defence than the rest of the ship.  The ship has a reduced gunnery complement, meaning that it can man its 4" short cannon and both HRC cannons with no difficulty, or the 4" short cannon one HRC and one Nordenfelt (a broadside).

The Hullcutter illustrates the diminishing gains from size in terms of structure in the Ubiquity system, coupled with the dangers of being wooden with no armour:

Hullcutter Screw Galley SIZE: 12 (700 tons)  DEF: 5   STR: 25   SPD: 10   HAN: -1   CREW: 74 gunners, 4 bridge crew, 21 turncranks, 7 deckhands, 6 officers (112 total)  PASS: 10 marines   PRICE: £52,820 WEAPONS: 2 x Rogue (forward sponsoon; 21 crew ea.) — Dmg: 9L   Rng: 2500' Rate: 1/8   Spd: S   Defence: 5; Lob Gun (amidships; 25 crew) — Dmg: 11L   Rng: 1300'   Rate: 1/8   Spd: S   Defence: 5; 2 x heavy guns (wing sponsoons; 7 crew ea.) — Dmg: 8L   Rng: 1500'   Rate: 1/4   Spd: S   Defence: 5; Rod Gun (aft sponsoon; 7 crew) — Dmg: 8L   Rng: 2500'   Rate: 1/8   Spd: S   Defence: 5.

It has a hefty set of ordnance, but its structure and defence are less than the Aphid.  In a battle with the Aphid, the Hullcutter has to fire its guns, and then ram and board, or it will face getting ripped to shreds by the Aphid's more rapid fire.  Similar to the Aphid, some compromises are needed to keep the weight to 700 tons, and the Hullcutter can only operate one of its heavy/rod guns at a time, if both its rogues and lob gun are in action.

Ätherwanderer

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Re: Skyship rules
« Antwort #5 am: 11. April 2016, 13:13:13 »
Zitat
but thought it might be of interest here

That is great!  :D